Comments on Think Moderate: House Passes Hate Crime Prevention Act

This legislation is an amendment to title 18USC 24...

2010-05-14T20:45:36.538-05:00

This legislation is an amendment to title 18USC 245. Posted below
TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 245
(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to limit the authority of Federal officers, or a Federal grand jury, to investigate possible violations of this section.
(b)Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, by force or threat of force willfully injures, intimidates

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Wouldn't a serial killer killing people at random ...

2008-07-10T16:34:00.000-05:00

Wouldn't a serial killer killing people at random because he hates people incite even more fear than someone killing people because of race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. Because anyone can be a victim it provokes fear in a much larger social group than a single race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. It provokes fear in society as a whole. So based on the logic used to justify charging for hate

in this definition, everytime a woman is raped and...

2007-06-07T13:49:00.000-05:00

in this definition, everytime a woman is raped and it incites fear into all women, a hate crime is committed. you've just incited fear into the group. right? pointless.

Re: Waresquirrel"You could not be more wrong. *Not...

2007-05-18T14:52:00.000-05:00

Re: Waresquirrel

"You could not be more wrong. *Not* all violent crime intimidates a larger social group."

What evidence do you have to claim such? The original claim that hate crime terrifies a social group is also not proven.

"The criminal's motives matter. That is a basic truth that our justice system has always recognized. You are trying to cordon off a particular

What you are failing to realize is that even thoug...

2007-05-18T14:48:00.000-05:00

What you are failing to realize is that even though the law is only enforced after a crime has been committed it *is* criminalizing thought, not action.

Murder is murder. Hate crime legislation attempts to make some murders 'worse' because the person who committed the murder thought "Oh, that's a black person, I sure hate black people, why don't I kill that black person" before killing

"For example, if a black woman attacks a white man...

2007-05-06T15:02:00.000-05:00

"For example, if a black woman attacks a white man while he's attempting to rape her, and calls him every name she can think of, couldn't the man claim he'd been the victim of a hate crime?"

No, he couldn't. This law is very specific: hate or foul language or the like is not a crime in and of itself. Bigotry has to be the motive behind a real crime, such as assult or

There are some very good points being made here, a...

2007-05-06T13:42:00.000-05:00

There are some very good points being made here, and I thank you for the healthy discussion. I believe this bill still has to go to the senate, so there's still time for amendments and such which will hopefully clarify and further define problem areas. Also keep in mind that Bush could always veto it...

I'm still on the fence about this. I understand t...

2007-05-06T13:31:00.000-05:00

I'm still on the fence about this. I understand the motivations behind it and heartily approve them, but the idea makes me nervous as it seems it could just as easily apply to groups that are not oppressed. For example, if a black woman attacks a white man while he's attempting to rape her, and calls him every name she can think of, couldn't the man claim he'd been the victim of a hate crime?<

Annonymous #3: You could not be more wrong. *Not...

2007-05-06T11:52:00.000-05:00

Annonymous #3: You could not be more wrong. *Not* all violent crime intimidates a larger social group. To say otherwise is flat-out false. And to claim that it somehow diminishes non-hate crimes makes no sense. That's like saying 1st degree murder diminishes other killings, so we should just have general homicide rather than crimes ranging from 1st degree murder down to 3rd degree man

Hate crime legislation scares the willies out of m...

2007-05-06T11:37:00.000-05:00

Hate crime legislation scares the willies out of me. I just can't see how this isn't creating a class of thought crimes, and the rebuttals don't offer any serious refutation of that.

"The idea is that it is a crime of intimidation against a group. It is not just the crime itself, it is what that crime does to members of that group."

But all violent crimes intimidate a

Vince: It isn't a double-crime because it is a ca...

2007-05-06T11:36:00.000-05:00

Vince: It isn't a double-crime because it is a category, not a charge in and of itself. 1st degree murder and 3rd degree man slaughter are, arguablly, the same thing. Both are about killing someone. The difference between them is the motives of the killer. We categorize crimes by type and severity based on the criminal's motives. We always have. This just examines the new (actually the old

"But that time is largely and gone...."? 'sounds l...

2007-05-06T11:27:00.000-05:00

"But that time is largely and gone...."? 'sounds like you need to get out of your bubble once in awhile. Start here: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table1.htm

The idea is that it is a crime of intimidation aga...

2007-05-06T11:17:00.000-05:00

The idea is that it is a crime of intimidation against a group. It is not just the crime itself, it is what that crime does to members of that group. If someone beats a gay man to death, it causes fear and intimidation is others who are gay.

Part of the reason the line gets blurred here is some of the people arguing against hate crime laws secretly cheer every time someone of a group

If I beat you up because I hate gays, but I don't ...

2007-05-06T11:12:00.000-05:00

If I beat you up because I hate gays, but I don't say that, I get one penalty. If I beat you up because I hate gays and I say that, I get an additional penalty. Or if I don't hate gays, but we have a fight and I stupidly say something against gays during the fight because of I'm angry with you about something else entirely, I still will be charged with a hate crime. There are clearly free speech

Still have problem... I am a liberal and usually r...

2007-05-06T10:52:00.000-05:00

Still have problem... I am a liberal and usually read thinkprogress but someone explain to me how "hate crimes" are not just a double crime. I understand the concept but that will just give a name to a group like the KKK and make it more popular. Everyone should be prosecuted equally. Just explain how one is not being tried, in essence, for the same crime twice?
Wheather murder or murder